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Transcript of 5/21/1901 Supplemental testimony for Martha Albert, Elijah, and Ida
SUPPLEMENTAL TESTIMONY.
F.- D.#42.
DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR,
COMMISSION TO THE FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES,
VINITA, I. T., MAY 21st, 1901.
SUPPLEMENTAL TESTIMONY in the matter of the enrollment of Mar
tha Albert, et al., as Cherokee Freedmen:
RUTH HUNT, being sworn and examined by Commissioner T. B.
Needles, testified as follows:
APPEARANCES:
A. S. McRea, Attorney for applicants;
W. W. Hastings, Cherokee Representative.
Q. What is your name? A. Ruth Hunt.
Q. How old are you? A. 54.
Q. What is your post office address? A. Vinita.
By W. W. Hastings: Mrs. Hunt, what was your maiden name?
A. Harlin.
Q. What was your father’s name? A. Ellis Harlin.
Q. What was your mother’s name? A. Nancy Harlin.
Q. Where did you go during the war of the Rebellion?
Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Q. After the war did you return to the Cherokee Nation? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did you return to the Cherokee Nation? A. 1867.
Q. What time in the year? A. It was either February or March. I
don’t remember which.
Q. But ‘67? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did any colored people return with you to the Cherokee Nation
when you came back? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you return with your father? A. Yes, sir.
Q. To what point did you return? A. About four miles this side of
Fort Smith, on the line of Arkansas, about a quarter of a mile from
the line, Arkansas line.
Q. Did you know a colored woman by the name of Martha Albert who
is the wife of Colly Albert? A. There was a man worked for us we
always called Albert, I don’t know what his other name was, his
wife was named Martha; he worked for us that summer we come back.
Q. The summer of ‘67? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did they return with you? A. No, sir.
Q. Were they over there on the place when you returned? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know where they came from? A. No, sir, I don’t, but Pa
went over in Arkansas somewhere and hired the man to come and work,
but I don’t remember where he got him. He had a man at work for us
and the man quit and he went away somewhere and got this man, he
got him in Arkansas somewhere towards Van Buren, but I don’t know.
Q. You brought no colored people back with you? A. No, sir.
Q. Did these people claim at that time to be Cherokee Freedmen?
A. I never heard it; if they did I don’t remember anything about
them ever claiming.
Q. Do you know what became of them after they left your place?
A. No, sir, I never seen or heard tell of them until they was tak-
ing the roll at Vinita here before.
Q. In 1896? A. Yes, sir, that is the only time I have ever heard
them since.
Q. Are you a Cherokee citizen by blood? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You reside at Vinita? A. Yes, sir.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY A. S. McREA:
Q. Mrs. Hunt, did you know the applicant, Mattie Albert, before the
war? A. No, sir.
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Q. Do you know her at all? A. I don’t know her only just as far
back as 1867; I remember there was a man worked for us by the name
of Albert, we called the woman Martha and the man Albert, they
worked for us here during the summer of 1867, that is all I know
about it.
Q. You don’t know whether she is the one who belonged to Johnson
Whitmire before the war or not? A. No, sir, I don’t know; I never
heard her say that she belonged to the Nation before the war.
Q. Did you know the Whitmires? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know any of their slaves? A. I can’t remember them I
knew them but I can’t remember them.
Q. Now, this man Albert that worked for your father, you don’t know
his given name? A. No, sir, we just called him Albert, and I don’t
remember what his other name was.
Q. You don’t know whether Albert was a given or surname? A. No,
sir; I don’t know which it was.
Q. Would you know the same persons if you would see them again?
A. I don’t think I would, it has been so long.
Re-direct examination by Mr. Hastings:
Q. How far did you live from Johnson Whitmire before the war?
A. About ten or 12 miles. I knew the family and I guess knew the
slaves, I don’t remember them now.
Q. I believe you said you were 54, that would make you be born in
1847; you would be about 14 years old when the war come up?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I was going to ask you if you lived in ten or twelve miles of
Johnson Whitmire and if this woman had belonged to him before the
war, it it quite likely you would have known that in 1867?
A. It seems that she would have known people that I did and would
have said something about it. I went to school with Whitmire’s
children and have been at Ben Whitmire’s house and I guess would
remember some of the names if I heard them recalled, but I can’t
remember them now.
Q. You didn’t recognize this woman? A. No, sir, I would not
recognize her now.
Q. You didn’t recognize her then as belonging to Johnson Whitmire?
A. No, sir.
Q. Never heard her remark about it? A. No, sir.
EMMA FINLEY, being duly sworn by Commissioner T. D. Need-
les, testified as follows: Direct examination by Mr. Hastings:
Q. What is your name? A. Emma Finley.
Q. What is your age, Mrs. Finley? A. 51.
Q. What is your post office address? A. Tahlequah.
Q. Are you a Cherokee by blood? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Recognized citizen of the Cherokee Nation? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mrs. Finley, what was your maiden name? A. Emma Harlin.
Q. You are a sister of Mrs. Hunt who has just testified?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was your father’s name? A. Ellis Harlin.
Q. What was your mother’s name? A. Nancy Harlin.
Q. Did you come back with your father after the war to the Cherokee
Nation? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did your father die? A ‘67
Q. Where did he die? A. Down in Sequoyah district, near Fort Smith.
Q. To what point in the Cherokee Nation did you return after the war?
A. Down on the line close to Fort Smith.
Q. About how far from Fort Smith? A. Four miles.
Q. I ask you if any colored people returned with you? A. No, sir.
Q. What time did you return to the Cherokee Nation? A. In ‘67.
Q. What time in ‘67? A. I am not positive what month it was, it
was either February or first of March, I think.
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Q. Did any colored people return with you? A. No, sir, there was
not.
Q. Do you remember a colored woman by the name of Albert, Martha
Albert? A. Why, yes, I remember her, she didn’t come back with us.
Q. She didn’t come back with you? A. No, sir.
Q. When do you first remember of having seen her?
A. I think it was the last of March or first of April, I am not
positive which, but it was along about that time.
Q. It was after you returned to the Cherokee Nation after the war?
A. Yes, sir, after we come back in ‘67.
Q. Do you know where she came from? A. In the State some place.
Q. She worked for you that season, or part of the time?
A. Part of the time.
Q. She didn’t come back with you or your father? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know whether she claimed at that time she was a Cherokee
slave? A. No, sir, she didn’t; if she did I never heard her.
Never claimed at all.
Q. Mrs. Finley, did you know Johnson Whitmire before the war?
A. No, sir, I had heard of him but I was not acquainted with him.
Q. You were young? A. Yes, sir.
Crosa examination by A. S. McRea:
Q. Mrs. Finley, where did you all go to before the war, did you
leave the Nation? A. Before?
Q. Yes. A. No, I left the Nation after the war began.
Q. Left during the war? A. Yes.
Q. Where did you go to? A. Fort Smith.
Q. Did you know Martha Albert at that time? A. When I left the
Nation?
Q. Yes? A. No.
Q. Where was the first time you ever seen Martha Albert? A. In ‘67.
Q. Where at? A. In Sequoyah District.
Q. At what time of the year was it? A. It was in the last of March
or first of April, I am not sure which.
Q. In 1867? A. Yes, in ‘67.
Q. Do you know whether she had ever lived in the Nation?
A. No, I don’t.
Q. Did her husband work for you all? A. Yes, in ‘67.
Q. What was his name? A. Colly, that is all the name I ever heard.
Q. Just knew him as Colly? A. Yes, that is all we called him.
Q. Do you know whether or not they were slaves? A. No, I don’t
know.
Q. And you say they came here from the State of Arkansas to work
for your father in 1867? A. Yes, s
Q. You don’t know whether or not of your own knowledge that had been
in the Territory prior to that or not? A. No, I only know that he
went over in the State and got them.
Q. What were they doing in the State? A. I don’t know.
Q. Don’t know whether they were living there or not?
A. I suppose they were living there; went there and got them.
Q. Isn’t it possible that they could have been over there at work?
A. It is possible, it is not impossible, of course; they had every
thing they had over there.
Q. Had all their possession in the State of Arkansas? A. Yes.
Q. Did they move those possession over to your father’s place when
they come there? A. Yes.
Q. What possessions did they have? A. They didn’t have much,
just what they had in the house and one horse.
Q. You don’t know whether they left the Territory or not? A. No.
Q. And the first you knew about them was when they worked on your
father’s place in 1867? A. Yes.
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HARRY STILL, called as a witness on the part of Applicants
being sworn and examined by Commissioner T. B. Needles, testified
as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. Harry Still.
Q. What is your post office? A. Hayden.
Q. What is your age? A. Well, sir, don’t know exactly, something
over 50.
Q. You are a recognized citizen of the Cherokee Nation? A Yes, sir.
Q. Freedman? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is your name on the roll of 1880? A. No, sir.
Q. You are a contested citizen? A. No, sir.
Direct examination by A. S. McRea:
Q. Mr. Still, you are called on to give some evidence in the case of
Martha Albert; are you acquainted with Martha Albert? A. No, sir,
I am not.
Q. Did you knew Johnson Whitmire? A. Yes, sir, I knew Johnson Whit-
mire.
Q. Did you know any of his slaves? A. Yes, sir, I knowed his slaves,
I knowed ‘em all, he was a brother of my Master.
Q. Did you know this woman Martha? A. Martha Whitmire? I didn’t
know any Martha Whitmire.
Q. Did you know Colly Albert? A. I know Colly Albert when I see him.
Q. Did you know him before the war? A. No, sir, I didn’t.
Q. Did I understand you to first say that you knew Martha Albert,
or that you did not know her? A. I do not know her; I knew John-
son Whitmire’s slaves, but I did not know her.
Q. Do you know Eliza McCrady? A. No, sir.
Cross examination by Mr. Hastings:
Q. Where did you live before the war? A. Lived on Barren Fork at
George Whitmire’s place.
Q. What kin was George Whitmire to Johnson? A. Brother.
Q. How far did they live apart? A. It must have been four or five
miles.
Q. Are you well acquainted with Johnson Whitmire? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you well acquainted with Johnson Whitmire’s slaves?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know him to have a slave by the name of Martha?
A. No, sir. I didn’t know one by that name.
Q. Didn’t know one by that name? A. No, sir.
Q. You lived there in four or five miles? A. Yes, sir.
Q. If he had one you would have known it? A. Johnson had a good
many colored people; I knew most of them, I knew all of them, all
he raised.
Q. This woman claims now to be 54 or 55 years of age, which would
have made her 15 or 16 years old when the war come up; you didn’t
know any Martha Whitmire that was something of that age that belong-
ed to Johnson Whitmire? A. No, sir.
Q. How old are you, Harry? A. I am something over 50 years old,
about 54 as near as I can get at it.
re-direct examination by A. S. McRea:
Q. Did Johnson Whitmire own a slave by the name of Charles Whitmire,
or Charles Bolen? A. If he did I didn’t know, he may, I have heard
of Charles Bolen, but I don’t know who he is.
Q. Well, did he own a slave, a family slave, by the name of Nancy?
A. Not as I know of, sir.
Q. Now, as I understand you to say, Mr. Still, you didn’t know all
the slaves of Johnson Whitmire? A. Yes, sir; I was acquainted with
‘em, they was kin to me.
Q. You were kin to all them? A. Yes, sir, kin by blood and I know
them.
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J. O. Rosson, being first duly sworn, states that as stenog-
rapher to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes he correctly
recorded the testimony and proceedings in this case and that the
foregoing is a true and complete transcript of his stenographic
notes thereof.
[signature]
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 17th of August, 1901.
[signature]
Commissioner.